Your transcript

[00:00:00] Kath: It's okay to also be, authentic about it and at least be real and say, this is hard. And I think you know, you don't have to pretend that everything's okay.
[00:00:08] It's okay that things are not going well because it's about how, you know, we roll up our sleeves and we recover from a situation is the most important thing.
[00:00:18] Gillian: Katherine Kennedy is the general manager of supply chain at Beiersdorf, the company behind some of the world's most recognised brands like Nivea, Elastoplast. It is a fast-paced, highly accountable environment, as you might expect with global reach.
[00:00:35] The head office is in Germany and Kath plays a key leadership role in how this part of the business performs. Now I met Kath 18 months ago when she reached out about executive coaching and we had that all important first conversation to see if the fit was right.
[00:00:53] And what struck me almost immediately when chatting with Kath was her curiosity. She asked terrific questions. She was also very open, very vulnerable, and I loved her energy.
[00:01:06] We quickly connected, and we began working together and it's been a real pleasure coaching and getting to know Kath. Now, most senior women, like Kath, don't come to coaching because there's something wrong. They come to coaching because they want more.
[00:01:24] They want to expand their impact. They want to navigate complexity more effectively. They want to keep growing without compromising who they are. And in Kath's case, she was already highly respected internally. Seen as this strong leader, a brilliant problem solver. But she wanted to keep evolving, to lead more effectively, to influence more broadly, to stay focused on what matters in a role that really slows down.
[00:01:54] And let's be honest, supply chain is one of the busiest, most intense areas of any business.
[00:02:00] So this episode, it offers a real look at senior leadership, and I'm not talking about the curated version. But the decisions, the pressure, the pace, and the thinking it takes to stay effective when the stakes are high.
[00:02:14] I know you'll enjoy listening to Kath today. She is smart, grounded, refreshingly honest, and a genuinely lovely person too. Let's get into it.
[00:03:39] Well, Kath, welcome to the podcast. It's so great to have you here.
[00:03:41] Kath: Thank you very much, Gillian. I'm um, so, happy to be here. I'm very excited that you invited me on.
[00:03:47] Gillian: So let, let's get stuck into things. And I feel like because we know each other so well, I can just kick off with a bit of a curve ball question to you.
[00:03:56] If I asked your team and the people who work around you at Beiersdorf to describe your leadership in three words, why do you reckon they'd say, Kath?
[00:04:07] Kath: That is a uh, a very hard one. Thanks so much, Gillian, for uh, starting with, I think for most of the people that. I work with, they would probably say that I'm, curious, but I am supportive and engaging. I hope they would say that and I really do believe that they would say that, because I really focus on having a open communication style. And I really do believe on, you know, what you see is what you get and really. Striving for authenticity. So, I think when you work on that, it's very important to create that transparency because I really do want people to be comfortable about, you know, who they are to help them strive for the best.
[00:04:52] Gillian: Well, I think you role model that very well. I mean, you're, you're very grounded and honest and level-headed under pressure, that's for sure. And probably for some context for everyone. You lead this team of 22 people. My words, Kath, not yours. It's a very high pressure, volatile business function being supply chain.
[00:05:13] And Kath, you might just briefly explain what you do, what your role is there. And also, I'd just love to know from your perspective, what's the hardest leadership lesson? What have you learned that's been probably the hardest leadership lesson in your role in supply chain?
[00:05:30] Kath: So starting off with, with what my role really is. I think supply chain is definitely not for the faint hearted. It is very, very complex and there's so many different pillars across supply chain that, that we cover. So, there's logistics, which is around transport and warehousing, but it's not only just our local distribution, but there's sea freight and inbound that is covered there.
[00:05:56] We have areas where it's procurement. There's demand planning, supply planning. We cover the whole SNOP process. We also look after customer service master data. And then let's not forget our number one priority is quality because we're all about providing quality products. And we also look after regulatory topics as well.
[00:06:20] So there's really not any area of the business that we don't touch or have a significant impact on, and we know that we are the center of the business. And we really need to be across so many different diverse topics. And in, in saying that, I think the hardest lesson I've really learned was during Covid, and that was around the time that I started in this role as well. It was such a dynamic and chaotic time. There was you know, we were really facing unprecedented occurrences throughout the whole industry. So it wasn't just like a Beiersdorf issue, it was a whole industry impact across supply chain.
[00:07:05] And I don't think and area was actually untouched. So, one of the, the key lessons that I did learn was be the calm amongst the chaos. I think that actually became my mantra for a very long time to really try and um, while everything was, you know, crumbling around us in, in so many ways, was trying to be calm, have a calm approach to it because everyone is watching how you respond at the worst times.
[00:07:35] And I think everyone focuses on that, and it's really the time where you need to provide some clear direction, some you know, support across the team where even you don't have the energy or, anything left in the tank to do that, that is your number one priority in trying to deliver some calm and consistent message across the team.
[00:07:58] Gillian: Yeah, I know it's in those chaotic moments, even senior leaders, you can fall into the trap to thinking you're off the radar in that moment and amongst the madness. No one will notice if you're having a wobbly moment or just losing your footing. But you're always on the radar. Everyone is always on the radar in some ways, and, and the energy that you give off in those situations, you know, people are looking to see, how they should respond. It's such important role modeling moment, isn't it? Yeah.
[00:08:31] Kath: It really is. And, and it's, it's okay to also be, authentic about it and at least be real and say, this is hard. And I think one of my favourite phrases at the time was what a shit show. You know, you don't have to pretend that everything's okay.
[00:08:46] It's okay that things are not going well um, because it's about how, you know, we roll up our sleeves and we recover from a situation is the most important thing.
[00:08:56] Gillian: Yeah, it's like calling out the elephant in the room, isn't it? It kind of gives everyone a bit of a relief. Yeah. Now, you've built a fantastic career, Kath, but it hasn't always been in supply chain, so you've spanned from HR to finance and then during the pandemic, you, you stepped into this role.
[00:09:12] Hell of a time to pick up a role like that, by the way. What is that one thing in your mind that has enabled you to step into those different types of professions and do well. Succeed.
[00:09:25] Kath: I, I think really when, when I reflect on it, I think the main, or the, the common thread for me was really about my hunger for learning. And it wasn't just around the systems or processes, which was definitely the focus when I was younger and starting out. That's really where I excelled with that hands-on learning.
[00:09:47] But I think it's the, the hunger for learning across the board. So, I was very open to challenges. then I, I really had some great exposure with some great leaders, some excellent managers who really, I think, responded to someone that was so eager to learn. And they, they really fostered that learning in me and really encouraged me, which was fantastic to have.
[00:10:34] I think when you've got that sort of sponge approach where you really want to learn so much, there's also not just the processes or you know, different systems in businesses that you want to learn, but it's also people's styles and their behaviours that you really absorb as well.
[00:10:51] And it's not always just the best behaviours, you have to make choices about what is natural for you and inspires you and you know, so then with some of the leaders, I took on some great learnings there about what inspired me. What I really found um, was for my natural development. And then on the flip side, there is people that you do work with where you think, I, do not want to have that style.
[00:11:18] I do not want to have you know, that management style or leadership. Style and it's important for you to not you know, absorb that energy as well.
[00:11:27] Gillian: Yeah. So being very intentional. Yeah. and I think there's two such good points in that. There's one's being intentional and the other is being adaptable
[00:11:35] Kath: Mm-hmm.
[00:11:36] Gillian: Because you do have to work with people that are not like you. And I think you do that very well, Kath. Being okay with that. Do you know what I mean? And, and just working around it because so much of our jobs these days are getting results through others and making sure that we are collaborative and, you know, aligned. But my observation, and I know you've heard me say this 700 times of the Beiersdorf culture is that it's very people oriented. And, you know, deep within that culture is a respect for each other. And I think if you've got a platform like that to work off, it helps a lot.
[00:12:11] Kath: It really does. And I think one of the, the biggest things we found, again, through Covid, where it was such a dynamic time and, and we had these. You know, these huge they used to call them uh, Kath type announcements. Because it was always uh, this delivery of, bad news that I, I really became so good at. Not that I wanted to excel in that area, but…
[00:12:37] Gillian: I love how your name was in the headline though,
[00:12:39] Kath: Yes. Yeah. it did amuse me at the time and hopefully it doesn't stick across the business when everyone has a Kath type announcement. But I, I think also was delivering bad news fast, I, I was very good at too. But the key learning that we had is that when you are working in a culture.
[00:12:59] Like Beiersdorf, it wasn't a blame game. Everyone knew that things were outside of our control. Everyone was doing their best to recover in a, in a very difficult period. And the support that we received across other functions of the business was exceptional. I don't think actually many of, myself included, and my team could have really navigated those waters that we did without the amazing support I've never experienced that in, in another business.
[00:13:30] Gillian: That's trust at its best, isn't it Like that? That is trusting your people in action. I love that. Let's talk about confidence, because confidence in my world is one of those topics that comes up a lot because it's all about women's career advancement and you know, you ask women what they want more of and it'll either be like presence or confidence in different ways. And I think we really look for confidence more in those high-stake moments. You know, when we are tested, when we need that sort of mental toughness to get the desired business result. And those moments can come, you know, in the boardroom, that can be a difficult conversation you didn't anticipate maybe a big presentation. Any of those things. And I know you've had a lot of big things in your world since taking on this job, from doing big presentations to stepping into some new challenges, you know, uncharted waters if you like. What have you discovered about your own confidence?
[00:14:32] Kath: It's been a huge journey for me, I think with my confidence because I do remember. The first time I had to get up and present to you know, the, the whole business, I was fairly certain I was going to die. But I didn't, which was amazing. So thank goodness I was wrong about that. And I do remember the first, you know, sort of, presentation that we had to do to, to our region. I felt like I was a deer in the headlights. I really thought that they were going to look at me and go, we've just made the biggest mistake putting her in this role. That's what I really felt like at the beginning. But I think everything is like a skill.
[00:15:13] It's refining that skill. It's practicing, it's actually throwing yourself into those uncomfortable moments more and more is how you learn and grow. And it really it, it's definitely how I developed my confidence and the more I did it, the more I felt I could become more natural with it and relax into it.
[00:15:36] So the more I did public speaking, the more I did my presentations, the more I presented to the region, the more comfortable I became in that area because it's also very unlikely in our business that someone's really going to call you out or put you in an uncomfortable position because there really is that support network across the board.
[00:16:02] Not only just with my peers but the leadership team here, because we are really trying to strive for not only the individual best, but the business best. And, and when you have that focus, it allows you to really have that platform to launch from.
[00:16:19] Gillian: Yeah. They want you to succeed. That's the bottom line. And, and that feels good, but it, it's really interesting to hear you say all of that because I think your experience is indicative of a lot of women's experience. Confidence isn't something that's handed on a silver platter for most of us.
[00:16:34] It, it's something, you know, you literally have to work on. And you've worked out a methodology, Kath, where you know you’re good at systems and learning things and getting into the trenches and figuring stuff out. And that's kind of like your superpower. And that gives you confidence because you figure things out and then your confidence builds, the self-belief builds and you get that lovely momentum where you start having narratives in your head that I can do this, you know, this will be fine. It’s a positive narrative, not that nasty little inner critic. But it is something that, to overuse the word that is intentional, right?
[00:17:15] Kath: Yeah, I think the easiest thing is, is avoiding it. So, you know, you have that inner struggle of, people would like you to present. And the first reaction is like, no, I don't think so. I don't think I'm, going to be able to do that.
[00:17:29] Or, or, it's very easy to, to do that. But the hardest thing is really to say is I'm going to do it because I need, you know, I need to challenge myself. I need to learn. This is a whole new area for me. It's not about a system, it's not about a process. It's a, it's a whole different skillset that I haven't honed in on and developed over the years. And it's the same. You have to have the same approach. It's just about doing something, getting better at it, doing that reflection and honing in on that new skill.
[00:18:00] Gillian: I love it. Now, I know we've been talking about you as a leader, which is very much what we wanted to explore today, but we have done coaching together, which has been fantastic now. And coaching always in my mind, like it forces you to pause a little. It can challenge your own thinking 'cause you're putting this spotlight on yourself in a way that you wouldn't ordinarily.
[00:18:24] What's one perspective shift from coaching that's changed the way you lead?
[00:18:30] Kath: Yes, so I, I think for me, coaching was really about a very big reset of my mindset. So it was really about honing in on I suppose what, what I was thinking, why I was thinking those things and you know, one of my favourite times throughout the coaching is where I would say something about what I was thinking, and you have like this bitter lemon confused look on your face, where it's like, why are you thinking that? Or why is this, and then I would realise like, why am I thinking that way? That is strange to be thinking. But I think for me, you, you get to a certain level and then the feedback stops.
[00:19:19] So throughout your career you are constantly being given feedback. You are constantly you know, having this, this catch up, whether it be with a manager or a mentor or um, these different areas in the business. And, and if you are open to that feedback, it's one of the biggest, you know, areas that you can grow in and then you get to a certain level and it just absolutely stops.
[00:19:43] I found that really confusing for me. That was really like, it would just, it was you know, whether it be constructive feedback or where you can improve, and then suddenly it's just this level of silence. And it tends to then play on your mind of. Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing, you know, are there areas that I have gaps in? Are there different things that I should be focusing on that people aren't, aren't telling me? And then I think one of the, I suppose light bulb moments was when you actually, we went through the process of going and getting feedback on specific questions.
[00:20:21] And I found that really quite uh, humbling and overwhelming because the, the feedback that I received was just so clear and transparent and it really made me realise that I was on the right path. I was on, you know, that right journey and, and again, I think that really helped with my confidence because I really picked people where I knew I was going to get some very, difficult feedback or strategic feedback from them, and the feedback that I, that I received was just gave me so much clarity on where I needed, where I needed to focus on, but also where I was really hitting the right notes and the right mark where I wanted to, which was I think a real epiphany moment for me.
[00:21:09] Gillian: Yeah. that's so good, Kath, and I think coaching. Because it's, it's broken up. And for example, you and I, we only catch up every three to four weeks. Things unravel. Right? You know what I mean? Business, business things happen. You have different challenges that emerge. Hopefully you're going away and playing with whatever it is that has been explored and you take a few steps forward and you get a taste for it or you get to come back and there's that lovely accountability where, you know, you have to eyeball me again and, you know, I'm gonna say, how did you go with that Kath? but it's beautiful because it does really keep you plugged in.
[00:21:44] You know what I mean? To making progress on the things that are important to you, and you've made tremendous progress. And I see this in so many of the women that I coach, and they make progress. Because they put in the effort, because it's easier to turn up to coaching and just intellectualise it all.
[00:22:02] But it's another thing going away, really reflecting on it, thinking about what you're gonna do more or less of all differently and applying those things and, and it really does take energy and effort. But your shift has been fantastic, and I'm sure even the most senior leaders in there would acknowledge that your leadership profile and capacity is probably the best it's ever been.
[00:22:29] Kath: Definitely. It really has, and I think when you, when you are given that clarity and you know, you remove that noise of your own, I suppose thoughts that can sometimes come in and, and really provide limitations for you. Once that's sort of removed and you really know where to focus it makes it so much easier and clearer.
[00:23:18] Gillian: Overthinking is something that a lot of high performing leaders battle with, and I think it's because of the ambition and the desire to do well. How have you learned to separate overthinking with smart decision making? Because your role is defined by the need to be decisive and fast moving, probably more than most leadership roles in there. So how do you separate that overthinking and ensure that you're doing your very best in that evaluation and making smart decisions?
[00:23:51] Kath: Yes. Look overthinking is something that I've, I've battled with for years. I think if I look back on years ago, I think the weight of overthinking almost, you know, crippled me in, some areas. And not just in a professional area, but in a personal area. I think I I'm very good at becoming overwhelmed by, by overthinking, but look, the lack of time actually helps you a lot with trying to, you don't actually have the luxury of overthinking in a lot of situations because it's very time critical and you are, if you are time poor, you actually don't have the time to overthink on a lot of scenarios. And so that was a, that was a big learning through Covid as well. We didn't have time to really sit and think about things or work out which way would be the best. It was really move, improve, and keep going. That was just the, the constant learning there. But for me, I really do focus on you know, having that clear, calm mind to make sure that I've got that space to make the right strategic decisions, you know, make them fast enough to keep up with the pace that we, we do have. So it is really about when I find myself overthinking, I have to compartmentalise, shut that down and move on. So, and for me, what I've learned is there's a very big difference between overthinking and reflection. Because overthinking, I find is about almost a paralysing moment where you can't make a decision because you are just really overthinking the situation. So you need to make the best decision that you can with the information that you have on at that time. And then reflection is later on where you need to reflect and go, what did I learn from that situation?
[00:25:41] Could we have done something better? Could we have made some changes during that? And then that's about the learning and, and continuous improvement that we need to look at. But not having that at that moment in time where you're really just being paralysed by your own thoughts.
[00:25:59] Gillian: That's a great differentiation too. one is hugely productive and the other. He's a disabler, isn't it? It's gonna hinder unless you approach it smartly and cautious is good in business if it's a business evaluation, but cautious for the sake of being cautious is not good in the business environment that does define us in 2025. Because you need to be decisive, right. And, and keep moving things forward. Kath, final question. What's a piece of advice, that you'd be happy to share. And it might be something that you've ignored in the past. And looking back, it was probably some advice you should have taken on, or it might just be a piece of advice that you'd be happy to share with our listeners.
[00:26:41] Kath: Yeah, look, I, I think the, the best piece of advice, I think there's two parts. So one is really learn and challenge yourself. I think that was the best thing I did over my whole career. It was not just sitting back and waiting for challenges. It was really facing things head on and believing that I could overcome them.
[00:27:02] There were many, many situations where I thought, okay, maybe I can't. But you do. You learn, you grow, and you continue to develop in, in different areas is what I tell everyone take on the challenge and, you know, surprise yourself on how well you can actually achieve things.
[00:27:20] Because it's, it's really where you find the, the biggest growth. And then for me, I think the learning that I learned much later, which I should have practiced or implemented when I was younger was build your network, build your people, and work on your brand. Um, Because I was a very strong believer that my skills and my expertise should speak for themselves.
[00:27:45] I shouldn't need to sell them. I shouldn't need to you know, make people aware of what I'm doing. Those things should speak for themselves. That's not true. It, it's very true if you have a manager with strong expertise in that area, they understand what you're doing day in, day out. But that's not really the case in a lot of areas.
[00:28:08] So it really is about how you’re portraying yourself, your brand, your um, the way that you are showing up in every scenario is so important.
[00:28:20] Gillian: People are judging us all, Kath, like it or not. Right. And, and I, and we judge too. And you know, there's evidence to say, I think there's a lovely piece of research that says in the first seven seconds of meeting someone, we make 11 decisions about them. It's like, wow.
[00:28:36] But we, we do subconsciously make decisions. So even how you behave on a Teams call, you know what I mean? People are still consciously or subconsciously making assumptions about us, whether we like it or not. So I think you're absolutely right. And that is, that is fantastic advice. So, thank you. It has been such a pleasure, Kath.
[00:28:57] Thank you so much. It's, it's funny having this conversation with you because we have so many conversations and listeners you need to know, Kath is also very funny, but she's also an absolutely brilliant leader and I've certainly enjoyed the insights and the examples and everything that you've shared with us so generously today. So thank you for being on the podcast
[00:29:18] Kath: Thank you very much for having me, Gillian. It's been a blast.